[Quora] My Answer - Are Japanese, Chinese, and Korean the same tribe? (2022.07.27)
[Quora] My Answer - Are Japanese, Chinese, and Korean the same tribe? (2022.07.27)
Q : Are Japanese, Chinese, and Korean the same tribe?
my answer :
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup O1
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup O2
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup D
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup N
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup C
some comments :
Only looking at top nodes isn’t enough, you need to look at subclades. For instance, the O1 clade found among Japanese and Koreans is mostly O1b2, and this subclade is nearly completely absent among Chinese and SE Asians.
However, it does not explain the distribution of O1b1 in northern China. Also, I can't know why you don't point out China's separation of O2. I would appreciate it if you could give an example based on O2 not O1.
some comments :
The most plausible explanation is that the O1b clade (and the entire O clade for that matter) likely originated in Paleolithic Northern China and was likely associated with the microlith cultures from certain Northern Chinese archaeological sites, like the Xiachuan microlith culture in Shanxi province that dates back to around 27,000 to 25,000 years ago, which is very close to the age of divergence between O1b1 and O1b2 at around 28,000 years ago. So O1b1 and O1b2 likely diverged somewhere in Northern China around that time, and O1b2 would be the branch that spread from the rest first and moved east to Northeast China or Korea. Whereas O1b1 either stayed in Northern China or moved to the East China Plain (at that time the sea levels were much lower and the East China Sea was a vast plain) and stayed there for the rest of the Ice Age. In the early Neolithic O1b1 spread into 2 branches, O1b1a2-Page 59 and O1b1a1-PK4. The former subclade is mostly found in Northern China whereas the later PK4 subclade is the one that is mostly found in Central & South China as well as SE Asia. And sometime later the PK4 clade split as well, with the F838 clade mostly found in Southeastern China and the M95 clade in Far South China, Southwest China, and SE Asia. This is the whole story of the migration of O1b from north to south. And I believe O1a and O2 have a similar history but I’m not that familiar with their subbranches. Haplogroup O definitely had a northern origin. So despite the SE Asians have a high frequency of O1b1, the vast majority of them belong to the downstream subclade of M95, whereas all the other clades of O1b1 like Page 59 and F838 are found in Northern and Central China. Hence it’s much more likely that O1b ultimately came from the north.
my comments :
You are falsely linking the separation period of O1b with the ancient Shaanxi Province, right? What haplogroups were detected at that site? Surely the argument that O1b has its origins in the North is a reflection of Chinese desire. China must link Koreans to the North and must link the North to China. And this is a historical fabrication that's been done very repeatedly in Chinese history. The study developed by the Chinese is for falsehood and is completely different from the non-Chinese tradition. Chinese ethnic groups continue to make all kinds of fabrications for the Fake of history they want. For example,
① Ancient genomics reveals tripartite origins of Japanese populations :
Do Koreans and Japanese descend from the same line of ancestors? Are the Yayoi people who migrated to Japan basically ancient Koreans? (Link : https://qr.ae/pvMZR6)
It is a research article distorted by the Chinese. In this comment, I wrote like this : "If you compare it among Western scholars, Alexander Bobbin's argument is close to the truth. And the triple hypothesis model is a study by the desires of Chinese ethnic groups. Exactly, the study is the concept of choosing who is the most closely related among the ‘Central Chinese’, ‘Mongolian’, and ‘Jomon people’. And the Mongolian people are not Yayoi. This is a deliberately misleading study. And immigration in four commandary of Han? That immigration occurred in the AD 700s and is not related to the AD 400s. And the Kofun tomb investigated is not actually the tomb of the ruling class."
This is a video that Koreans claim to mean that "Han" means “big”.
③
安倍さんのルーツは李家なんですよね？それなのに何故韓国に強気な姿勢を取るのでしょうか？ (Link : https://qr.ae/pvMZ82)
The above is the claim that the Abe Shinjo is a descendant of the Chinese People. Despite all this crap, let's ignore their Chineseic sophisticate, distorting arguments and think simply. Han(韓) and Han(韓) in the Spring and Autumn Period of China are same. Han(漢) River in Han(韓)’s capital, Seoul, is same with Han(漢) in China. And, the expected location that source separation of O1b1 and O1b2 is the sea between Northeast Asia and the Indo-China Peninsula. Let's think that this kind of behavior continues for centuries. How would you feel if you were subjected to that fabrication and gislighting for thousands of years?
some comments :
What did I distort? I simply said O1b and possibly the entire O clade most likely originated from the Xiachuan microlith culture which dates back to 27,000 to 25,000 years ago, since its age is very close to the age of O1b and of O. I did not claim that Koreans originated from Chinese or apanese since at that time there was no China no Japan and no Korea but only a bunch of East Eurasian hunter-gathers wandering on the Eurasian steppe. Quit spewing nonsence cause you don't even understand what I'm talking about.
why O1b originating from the North is a reflection of Chinese desire? What Chinese desire does that possibly reflect when there was no China or Chinese at that time? Haplogroup O likely originated from the north (could be Northern China, Siberia, Mongolia, etc. not necessarily within the modern borders of China) is supported by newest archaeological and genetic evidence. East Eurasians were closely related to the spread of the IUP (Initial Upper Paleolithic) stone technology (i.e. early microlith) and such technologies were found from Eastern Europe throughout Siberia, which Ust-Ishim and Bacho Koro both belonged (please refer to the paper published by Italian geneticists Vallini et al. 2021). Moreover, leading European geneticists like Svante Paabo have also confirmed that the Bacho Koro people from Paleolithic Bulgaria have directly contributed to modern East Asians(Paabo et al. 2021). And not to mention that the Ust-Ishim man from Siberia that lived 45,000 years age in Siberia carred the Y-chromosome haplogroup K2a, which was a predecessor of NO-M214
On the Other hand, the southern coastal hypothesis is an outdated hypothesis proposed nearly 3 decades age before the advent of ancient DNA testing. It has already become severely obsolete agter the advent of aDNA, not to mention that such a route is also not supported by archaeology.
Seriously, the cult of southern coaststal fantasy migration needs to be stopped and discontinued in the face of the newest genetic and archaological evidence. And if you accuse me of being a Chinese nationalist just because I supported the northern migration route across the Eurasian mammoth steppe, then I can also accuse you of having the desire to invade and conquer SE Asia judging by your fervent support of the southern coastal route. Shame on you for being a Korean fascist and aggressor towards the peaceful SE Asian peoples.
my comments :
to Meung Jeen ←
I'm not national, you Chinese are national. You have taken Singapore from Malaysia and now you have a large population of Malaysia. And it continues to move to Southeast Asia. Isn't your explanation of taking Southeast Asia a self-introduction?
China have a larger population than all non-Chinese combined in Asia
The number 1 immigration to Southeast Asian countries, Korea, and Japan is Chinese
And as you can see in the Haplogroup picture, your people unilaterally invade other countries.
Your O2 accounts for 70% in China, 45% in Korea, and 25% in Japan, but O1 accounts for less than 1% in China. This is a matter of balance of power, It’s very simple.
From what I see in Chinese history, most of the Chinese today are descendants of 軒轅, right? Countries that were not originally Chinese in ancient were also taken by immigrants of 軒轅系.
And Chinese are using the history of non-Chinese as a decoration that they’ve extinct and kept like livestock until today.
In my view, the ethnic minority system in China is a trophy-people showroom brainwashed by a convenient distortion of history by Chinese.
And it’s the same for Xinjiang, Uighur.
You guys argue the prosperity of minorities, but doesn’t that actually mean the prosperity of Chinese minorities who immigrated and became minorities centuries ago?
China always has a narrow structure that excludes immigration to China. But in contrast, they have unilateral movement to other countries.
Considering this situation, it is the China who truly want to replace Southeast Asians and Xinjiang Uighurs by Chinese. As a brother, the position of worrying about the Chinese invasion and the position of the aggressor are clearly different. And don't you feel anything after seeing the 3 question examples I wrote in the comments? Or have you abandoned your emotions and conscience long ago?
my comments :
The year of the site and the occurrence of separation are not causal, but correlation. And the northern root of the O1 ethnic group is the most cult Chinese faith. Since ancient times, you have used ethnic concepts to fabricate history and deceive other peoples to destroy them. Even if the fabricated history is still recognized as an established theory, It is natural to feel emotionally reluctant to the Chinese. Rather, forcing them to like Chinese is real violence.
//
some comments :
And about O2, none of its subclades are unique to China or to the Sinitic population, they can be found across the Asia-Pacific region from Mongols and Kazakhs in the north all the way to Indonesians and Polynesians in the south..
my comments :
Well, first of all, thank you for the explanation. But you give false details to O1 for a strategy of division and conquest, and you're very defensive to O2 that presumed highly related to Chinese and your explanation about O2 is very restrained, right? It's very impressive. As expected, the science and research of the Chinese are unreliable, and now I confirm the Chinese are soulless monsters who only have sex and give birth to Chinese babies.
some comments :
You're too nationalistic calm down Korean dude. If I really want to divide and conquer, then why would I say that O2 isn't unique to China but is spread across the Asia-Pacific region?
And I'm not giving any false details regarding O1b. I follow the most recent genetic papers on East Asians and the O1b subslades that I gave are all up-to-date. You're the one that is lagging behind with your outdated information.
Really just stop with your nonsense and your hysterical accusations against Chinese. We did nothing to you Koreans. Go vent your anger on the Japanese and on the North Koreans.
my comments :
Meung Jean : You’re too nationalistic calm down Korean (your deleted comment) you're very defensive to O2 that presumed highly related to Chinese and your explanation about O2 is very restrained, right? It's very impressive. I repeat, it is China that implements the most nationalistic policy. It is the fact that the Chinese are saying “not to discriminate against Chinese immigrants”, but in reality China is very restricting immigration from other foreign countries. The Chinese always move abroad, build Chinatowns in the country, and create their own space. I feel your different way of thinking. Definatly, this way of thinking is based on Chinese nationalistic thinking. The ethnic change in Xinjiang Uighur region is clearly a nationalist policy. You guys argue the prosperity of minorities, but doesn't that actually mean the prosperity of Chinese minorities who immigrated and became minorities centuries ago?
from: Are Japanese, Chinese, and Korean the same tribe?. Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-25. Retrieved 2022-07-27.
my comments :
From what I see in Chinese history, most of the Chinese today are descendants of 軒轅, right? Countries that were not originally Chinese in ancient were also taken by immigrants of 軒轅系. And Chinese are using the history of non-Chinese as a decoration that they've extinct and kept like livestock until today. In my view, the ethnic minority system in China is a trophy-people showroom brainwashed by a convenient distortion of history by Chinese. And it's the same for Xinjiang, Uighur. You guys argue the prosperity of minorities, but doesn't that actually mean the prosperity of Chinese minorities who immigrated and became minorities centuries ago? With consideration, I think the success of Chinese is a tragedy of mankind today.
from: Did the Chinese government commit genocide against the Uyghurs?. Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-25. Retrieved 2022-07-25.
some comments :
So no country has any cultures, as every nation mixes desire with fact when recording their history.
my comments :
However, if you look at the surname, you can see a number of surnames that also exist in mainland China. Of course, there seem to be some surnames that exist almost only in Taiwan like Korea. But, they are few.
some comments :
That’s because Taiwan is heavily sinicized, the now-dominant Han culture is influencing other areas of broad Taiwanese culture, and (even then) they have distinct cultural and phenotypical features that set them apart from the broader Sinosphere.
A good analogy/ case study of “cultural replacement” or “cultural dominance” would be the relationship between Russia and the Ukraine— Russia under the USSR (and, to a lesser extent, the Russian people) has influenced Ukrainian culture and funded Russian-speaking settlers to establish themselves in the country’s modern borders. This establishment is so ingrained in Ukrainian culture that (statistically speaking, according to Translators Without Borders) almost 1 in every 3 Ukrainians speaks Russian as a native language, with other sources saying that the number swells up if you include non-native L2 speakers.
https://translatorswithoutborders.org/language-data-for-ukraine
Even though this linguistic hierarchy exists in Ukraine, Ukrainian culture can still be found and Ukrainian is still given national status as an official language. It even has its own patriarchate in the Orthodox Church, a notable sign of a distinction in culture.
Russia, citing the linguistic similarities (and, more importantly, the overwhelming amount of ethnic Russians in the Donbas and coastal Ukraine) has decided to make claims against the sovereignty of the monolithic Ukrainian ethnic entity, saying that they are the literal same as Russians.
This is what China is doing to Taiwan right now. They are using the Taiwanese Han Chinese (who have been ethnically and culturally distinct for at least 5 centuries) as political pawns, as they are perceived to speak the same language (Mandarin Chinese) and share the same ancestors (keep in mind, most Taiwanese Han come from Fujianese itinerant settlers who moved there in the years between 1500–1700CE) and even cultural practices, in which have been long-removed from mainstream Mainland Chinese culture. This is in blatant disregard to the natives of the Taiwanese island(s) and their distinct heritage.
No matter how much Chinese culture Taiwan borrows, Taiwanese cultural identity will stay the same, as Taiwan is a heavily miscigenated country, culturally and (to a rather limited extent) ethnically. They will still have their languages, culture(s) and what have you.
my comments :
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times I hear the explanation, It reminds me the alien who kill human and imitate as human, which I saw in old movies.
from: Parody Politica - #StopAsianhate, but.... Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-26. Retrieved 2022-07-26.
some comments(George Qin) :
I don’t understand why this guy isn’t banned yet with such blatant Sinophobic remarks. If you look at his profile he talks more about hating Chinese culture than loving Vietnam (he’s not Vietnamese, only spiritually Vietnamese [精越], which is a rare breed tbh). I find this instance similar to how spiritually-Japanese (精日) Chinese are more fascist than the actual Japanese themselves, like some twisted version of the zeal of the convert.
my comments :
I can’t understand. Isn't Vietnam a descendant of the 越? The 越 people in China was extincted by Chinese in history. And there is some history of Chinese Vietnamese people dominating Vietnam once. In addition, there is a record of convenient distortion by Chinese immigrants in Vietnam's history. Nevertheless, is fear of sinophobia worng? It is a nature physiological feeling, and if you force non-Chinese to like them because it is not right, it is rather compulsory and oppression. Why turn a blind eye to such facts?
some comments(George Qin) :
The issue isn’t about China-Vietnam relations and history but about that particular individual making extremist thoughts. But no, the Bai Yue people (composed of various tribes) throughout history have either migrated to Southeast Asia or became a part of the Chinese nation. The Kinh tribe in particular eventually formed Vietnam as it is.
my comments :
Thank you for your reply. But, the particular individual you represent is only correct in normal circumstances. it is not correct if China is used as an example. Despite writting with a Chinese identity like this Wumao club, it is nonsense to be treated as an individual only when needed. It is as nonsensical as the fact that the Chinese are saying “not to discriminate against Chinese immigrants”, but in same time China is very restricting immigration from other foreign countries.
some comments(George Qin) :
I don’t get what you’re trying to say for your first 2 paragraphs. I’m not making this about myself because he didn’t write all that to me. I understand that English may not be your native language or if you haven’t spent enough time in an English speaking country, but if you agree with his actions as shown in my screenshots then you should be defending his viewpoints (to abolish the Chinese language and thus Chinese culture and identity) not “concern trolling” and feeling sorry for him because the rest of us are calling him out. Usually the worst form of anti-China hate is balkanizing/partitioning China into different states (usually said by the extremists in Asia and some Westerners with some insight into China) or for the usual Westerners they talk about just nuking China or plundering it. This is something most of us here have seen already. But even they, as hate-filled as they are have never advocated for cancelling Sinitic culture and history. What he does here is basically uprooting the whole tree, burn it, and salt the earth around it, not just stealing the fruit/trimming the leaves/cutting the branches/sawing the trunk, to put it in a metaphor. For the third paragraph, again you keep changing the topic to unrelated issues. If other countries want immigrants, then their governments have decided the benefits of having them outweigh the costs and thus takes them in. If there is demand, we have the supply. For the West, usually that would be because the government wants Chinese money to prop up the real estate market or they want investment in factories. At the lower end, they are also in dire need of having more manual labor the locals don’t want to do, but the later type of immigration has slowed down over these years from China. Speaking of immigrants, the Koreans and Chinese here are VERY close with each other. We have tight knit businesses and both peoples know better than to engage in stupid ultra-nationalism when we could benefit more in profiting businesses, also while we’re not that big in numbers, separately. While it is not right to say the West is a paradise promised land where nothing bad happens to us, it is also unfair to say there’s hatred at every turn and we live like non-Japanese people occupied by Japan in WW2; at least not yet.
my comments :
First, I am not a native English speaker. Second, sinophobia is not caused by propaganda. it's born from historical flow not intentionally. Farther more, even if I hear your explanation, I get an impression from Chinese history that reminds me the alien who kill human and imitate as human, which I saw in old movies. Therefore, from the beginning of my deleted comment, my argument that someone hate Chinese is not an area of artificial hate speech, but rather a natural emotion from the perspective of experiencing Chinese history and expansion. Rather, forcing them to like China is more real violence. Last, according to your surname, I don't know if it's a descendant of the person who stole the original user of your surname or if it's a real descendant, but I think of course you should agree with my argument.
some comments(George Qin) :
Perhaps you misunderstand both his and my intentions. The guy in question is not a Vietnamese but an American. He is not writing hate speech about China on behalf of the collective Vietnamese experience but for his own egoism. It is one thing if he was shamed and sent off without welcome when he lived in China or other heavy Chinese immigrant areas (like another American who’s account got banned for spouting the same hate speech that this space knows of), but he seemed to otherwise enjoy himself for most of the time. (South) Korea and Vietnam are very different and distinct countries, that I know well. But both your feelings in this regard is one of the main aspects you 2 have in common haha, and I can understand, your feelings are noted. My intention is not to force him or anyone to like China, they must do so on their own free will or not at all given all information available. I would post on anti-China spaces if that was my intention but I know that is fruitless. I simply call out problematic individuals for the sake of people I associate with. You can for sure be a hero and stop from others from forcing anyone to do things they don’t want online or in real life, but it’s my prerogative to do what I want, and for this I can, as long as I don’t break Quora guidelines. If there is any attacks on Korean spaces I fully support you in your effort to stop the intrusion. A surname is a surname. China has long abandoned feudalism so it matters not, but I will say I’m quite proud of my family’s traceable ancestral history from at least the Ming dynasty to the present! Also if you’re talking about the same person I’m thinking of, know that his original surname is not Qin and he did not have Qin as his childrens’ surname, LOL. You seem to be getting more vicious with me, is the 火病 setting in? I could be a lot worse. believe me. But because of all the kind and helpful Koreans I know in my personal life, I chose to have restraint instead. If you cannot then I suggest you leave Quora, especially Chinese space Quora. I hear Naver is more politically aligned with people like this.
my comments :
Is Quora a Chinese space? The Chinese always move abroad, build Chinatowns in the country, and create their own space. I feel your different way of thinking. Quora is not a Chinese space at all. Isn't it Chinese who take over public places and pee on their? China always has a narrow structure that excludes immigration to China. But in contrast, they have unilateral movement to other countries. And,
The Uyghurs living and working in Beijing are not the same as those in Xinjiang. They try to live as the Han Chinese and dress like the Hans and don’t use the hijab or burka. Why? ( Link : https://qr.ae/pvMeWt )
As you can see in these writtings and comments, you guys only extend the concept of Han Chinese when it’s necessary.
Likewise, it is against logic that denying the claim casue of American grounds, not Vietnamese, who acquired a hostile identity against China.
Definately, the more brainless & know nothing, the more they are sarcastic.
some comments(George Qin) :
And Koreans usually follow the Chinese after they built their space overseas first, it seems history does not repeat but it certainly does rhyme! That is fine, we share tight knit community. This space The Wumao Club certainly is a pro-Chinese space, but the consensus from China-haters in other social media will make it seem like all of Quora is, so sure ahahaha! As I already said China does not need immigration like the West does because their economic model depends on it, while China has enough domestic demand for the usual services. Ok now you’re shifting again to the notion of Han ethic Chinese vs minority Chinese, this topic is getting out of hand and you keep bringing up separate issues far from related to the main one. No one in China calls the Uyghurs as Han ethnic regardless of where they are, LOL. I think we’re done here. Nothing I’ve said ever was sarcasm as hard to believe it, I really do mean everything I said.
from: The Wumao Club - by George Qin. Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-26. Retrieved 2022-07-26.
Q : An Indian journalist has said - “India is geographically located in what one may call a Muslim cultural zone that stretches from Turkey in the west to Indonesia in the east”. Do you agree with this statement?
some comments :
It is a bit inverted. The broader “Muslim cultural zone” is around the Indosphere. It is from India did the key religions — Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam spread to Indonesia, Malaysia and rest of South East Asia. On the west, places such as Afghanistan had strong Indic cultural elements. Regarding West Asia, its population is comparable to that of the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh. India is dramatically bigger.
While the West Asia did influence India through Islam, India did influence in return and thus the interaction was bidirectional. This portion was called the Middle East, by the India office of the British Raj in reference to India and UK. UK is west, India is east, the things in the middle are middle east and the things farther are far east. Some of the areas in the Middle East used to be managed from India [for instance, Aden in Yemen belonged to the Bombay province] and many of the countries — Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar — used to use Indian rupee as their currency. The Muslim world and India influenced each other. But, India was substantially bigger. For instance, around the partition in 1947, India had 25x more population than the largest Middle Eastern country — Iran. Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations would all fit into any Indian province.
my comments :
To elaborate, Korea and Japan were replaced by Sinosphere, although they were Indosphere in ancient time. This is confirmed by having 45% of the Chinese gene in Korea and 25% of the Chinese gene in Japan. And already, Korea's economic hegemony is owned by Chinese Koreans. Japan is also experiencing Chinese immigration and economic attack. Therefore, national inefficiency occurs due to Japan's internal political struggle. And Malaysia lost Singapore to Chinese immigrants. It is a history that continues untill to this day.
from: An Indian journalist has said - “India is geographically located in what one may call a Muslim cultural zone that stretches from Turkey in the west to Indonesia in the east”. Do you agree with this statement?. Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-28. Retrieved 2022-07-28.
Q : Why does China try to claim KimChi and steal cultural assets from Korea?
some comments :
The Korean public is just paranoid and in a positive feedback loop of brainwashing. It starts off from a news article posting this news. Then, it catches fire from the Korean public. Strangely, the Korean public gets addicted to these kinds of news and the media outlets will be willing to search for more ultranationalistic comments. From just a few ultranationalists, it seemed like every Chinese is saying it because these Korean news outlets keep churning out articles of the same matter. To put it into perspective, this video is a Japanese reporting of Koreans claiming Kendo is Korean. It hasn’t made big news, meaning that it is selective ultranationalist cherrypicking.
Many Koreans would find it nonsense and anti-Korean propaganda. They would tout that this is only the minority and that they are embarrassed by the actions of these people. This is how Chinese people react to the claims by Korean netizens that they steal Korean culture. Not only are they confused, but they are mad by the misrepresentation. If you walk down the streets of even the most nationalistic city (Changsha) and ask people if they think Kimchi is Chinese, they would think you’re crazy. Chinese barely know about these topics, just like Koreans barely know about the nationalistic claims their ultranationalists make.
my comments :
Because the K ultranationalist is ambiguous to describe as a Korean, they invests in such delusions for their identity. And it's hard to understand why Koreans should solve it when we find out the truth. Considering the cause, I think Big continent is responsible for solving it.
from: Why does China try to claim KimChi and steal cultural assets from Korea?. Quora. Archived from the original on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
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